Thanks for this, Kim. I feel a similar struggle, with my fire fighter Dad having "moved us away" to North Wales from Liverpool when we were kids to escape the city life he'd had. It made me strangely desperate to identify as scouse and working class, even as mum became a teacher and we achieved something like (through their physical and intellectual hard graft, I must add) middle class economic security. This "working class sensibility" is something I've clung to. I just get the ick thinking of myself as anything other, though I know the world I inhabit is so far from my working class roots. There feels almost an obligation to advocate for or represent that class, though in doing that, there's the danger of sentimentalising hardship or becoming the kind of snooty saviour my scouse family would hilariously take the piss out of. Christ, we were almost social pariahs for having moved out of childwall! Plenty to think anout. Really enjoyed reading. Gary
I recognise 'working class sensibility' as something that never leaves you. If you have to forget where you came from in order to reach your destination, you are on the wrong path.
Yes - I agree r.e sentimentalising. I find myself doing this with the particular brand of protective/aggressive masculinity that I grew up with which is another marker of class for me - something else I'd like to write about!
I've lived within this tension all my life. Grew up in a working-class family but encouraged became an academic. I changed who I was as far as my family were concerned. Had the experience you describe. Was I middle class then? Many children in post-war years were encouraged (and educated) to aspire. Those making judgements on writing, running literary journals, etc may have inheritance/are probably the next generation after the aspirers. Are my children middle class? Possibly. I always tell people of my background. I've worked in areas designed to open doors to others. Education, encouragement and confidence are key imo. These are political issues!
I write all the time about my life experience. I live by a code that supports the social contract that I benefitted from. Every year we lose elements of the contract means inequalities will become more stark.
This resonates with me so deeply . To this day l screen who l talk to about my love of Art and Poetry because it is met with derision and ‘ not real’ .
I am so fortunate to be going on course at a School of Art ( on a grant )… they are a non profit organisation and hold fundraising events for grants.
I have been so excited.its just wild
But there is also that feeling in the pit of my stomach….will l fit in with other students ..
because l am obviously working class background l have imposter syndrome .
It’s definitely not with the Tutors l have no worry of that after my zoom interview fantastic tutors .
Don’t get me wrong
l am owning this as my problem.
I hope l can find some one l can talk about Nature l will be fine 🤣
But like the previous commentator suggests maybe it is only the working class that worry about it ….
Because l have been judged so much by my peers who where in the same situation of having to stay in the box.
I am reading Cathy Burke’s book ‘
“A mind of my own “…..and again so much resonates … the lack of regular meals . Being a latch key kid …. It’s sad and happy all at the same time l find myself laughing out and then crying hot tears .
I understand how your parents talk of feeling uncomfortable that readings are not for them. Though they are so proud of you .
I go to events alone has when l ask who wants to come to a reading it’s all tumble weed .
I recently sharing a cafe table in Keighley purely by chance with a lady of similar age who was visiting the Lit festival alone for this reason. It was fabulous as we could just let rip to one another sharing our favourite writing.
It's so important to find your people in terms of writing - and they can become like another family :) I'm really glad to hear the tutors were fantastic.
Thanks for this, Kim. So many echoes of my upbringing; my dad was a plumber, my mum was a dinner lady in a borstal. The "no man's land" a university education puts you in!
I started to write this a few times and just ended up saying what my parents' jobs were and feeling annoyed with myself - why do we always go backwards? I guess to be honest I don't feel working class enough to state it about myself, but I'm also 'not-middle-class' enough that I identify with feeling out of place in educational settings, financial precariousness (especially in the arts) etc. I too was told writing wasn't a job and here I am somehow. Nuance like this piece is what class discussions are currently missing.
Thanks for such a great article, Kim, and for the continued inspiration. My wife, N., has had similar experience as her mother's extended family are from New Parks in Leicester. N. was the first in her family to go to university and doesn't have a Leicester accent, for which her uncle has called her posh and her brother often said 'My taxes pay for your schooling.' She's been a second school teacher for twenty years and has really enjoyed the experience. When they were first married her parents were mocked for moving out of Leicester to a small village; my mother-in-law was amazing at saving money as my in-laws managed to scrimp & save to come visit us every year when we lived in the States. N. & I have often had discussions about class and have concluded there seems to be no discernible rules as to when you're working class or when you're no longer.
This is soooo important! The effects of class on culture so easily goes unexamined, but it’s there all the time. It’s who we listen to, how we write, who gets to be admitted, how we read.
The subject of class feels like such a complicated one to me. When I first started sharing my writing I was called 'an authentic working class voice' and certainly I feel like I come from a working class background. But my dad was a baker and he owned his own shop, my mum was a secretary., although she also had other jobs before that , that might be seen as working class, like washing hair in a salon, although it was her sister's salon. So is my background working class? I didn't go to university until I was 40, I worked all those years before that behind bars, but never my own bar, always someone else's. I've never had a mortgage, and I never will. My mum and dad did, my ex husband's mum and dad did and now my ex has, too. But I will never.
Doing a PhD and mixing with people who come from different backgrounds to me, makes me think about class, but I don't feel excluded. I felt more 'different' when I started an MA at Manchester uni after my undergrad degree, I couldn't finish that MA because my 19 year old daughter was having a baby, my mum was looking after my 6 year old, and I couldn't afford the fees , so I dropped out and worked in home care.
Now I'm back at uni doing a PhD, I feel like the time is better and with funding, paying for it isn't an issue, I could never have afforded to pay for a PhD. I feel like I've worried about money all my life and my parents did too, like you, Kim, I often heard them discussing not being able to afford stuff. But we went on holiday every year.
. I'm not even the first person on my family to do a doctorate, my uncle is a Professor. My uncle who came from the same upbringing as my mum, and who, out of six children, was the only one to go to university. He was the only boy.
Hmm. Maybe I need to shut up and wrote my own Substack.
Ha - thanks for commenting Gill. Really interesting to hear about this and the grey areas...Your post r.e money made me remember the Catalogue - which was a massive catalogue that my mum 'ran' - neighbours and family would order clothes and then pay a couple of pounds a week - and then there were the people who didn't pay on time....knock on the door - oh it's such and such with her catalogue money...etc
If you had professional parents but have not worked for years yourself you can still be thought of as middle class by most people locally if you speak with the long 'a', especially in an area with selective education. I really feel for all the eleven year olds about now excluded because they were not selected for grammar. It starts with education and closing down windows of opportunity.
Thank you for sharing your experiences in this article. I can relate to so much of what you have written.
I am the first person in my family to go to university and at my graduation my peers were receiving gifts, like expensive jewellery and cars. My family didn’t even know graduation congratulations cards existed.
It can feel strange to have a foot in each camp. I’m so grateful to hear I’m not the only one.
Ah Joanne that made me smile in recognition as well. I didn't really understand what graduation was even when I was graduating the first time! I also didn't even understand what the degree classifications were - I was often oblivious!
Thanks for sharing, and for keeping this post in the free area of your substack mailing list.
The central section resonated.
Growing up in a single-parent working class poverty-stricken household in the 80s but being encouraged by my working class mum to aspire to more, to "make something of ourselves" gave me this constant unshakeable class tension. Honour and loyalty to family roots feel embedded in the "not leaving our working class-ness" behind, whilst a backlash against any identity that leaves my roots behind. None of my friends ever had to worry about class the way I did. And now my daughter is growing up with two working parents her experience is light years from mine...
I wonder if working / class is only a concern for the working classes?
Hi Katrina - all our written content from now on will be in the free area of Substack! We’ll just be holding online events for paid subscribers :) I’m glad this resonated - and I absolutely recognise that discomfort and tension. I feel very uncomfortable writing this - as if I am betraying someone or something by naming some of this stuff - as if I am leaving something vulnerable to exposure. Perhaps I will write about that next…I am wrestling with it all as I write!
My sister in law stopped all contact once we bought a detached house. Despite the fact that our house in Berkshire is cheaper than theirs in London. I really miss seeing my brother.
I've just spent a year at the UEA on the MA Non-Fiction Creative Writing Course, an experience I found deeply alienating. No one ever once mentioned social class. I had more in common with the cleaners & groundsmen than the academics who taught us. Where are the memoirs by kids who went to Secondary Modern schools?? 🤔
I'm sorry to hear that Nancy - I do think class is the elephant in the room, and I am interested (of course) in how it intersects with gender as well. Re memoirs of kids who went to Secondary Modern schools - I have written a kind of memoir called 'What the Trumpet Taught Me' :) but am sure there are lots more!
Thanks for this, Kim. I feel a similar struggle, with my fire fighter Dad having "moved us away" to North Wales from Liverpool when we were kids to escape the city life he'd had. It made me strangely desperate to identify as scouse and working class, even as mum became a teacher and we achieved something like (through their physical and intellectual hard graft, I must add) middle class economic security. This "working class sensibility" is something I've clung to. I just get the ick thinking of myself as anything other, though I know the world I inhabit is so far from my working class roots. There feels almost an obligation to advocate for or represent that class, though in doing that, there's the danger of sentimentalising hardship or becoming the kind of snooty saviour my scouse family would hilariously take the piss out of. Christ, we were almost social pariahs for having moved out of childwall! Plenty to think anout. Really enjoyed reading. Gary
I recognise 'working class sensibility' as something that never leaves you. If you have to forget where you came from in order to reach your destination, you are on the wrong path.
Yes - I agree r.e sentimentalising. I find myself doing this with the particular brand of protective/aggressive masculinity that I grew up with which is another marker of class for me - something else I'd like to write about!
I've lived within this tension all my life. Grew up in a working-class family but encouraged became an academic. I changed who I was as far as my family were concerned. Had the experience you describe. Was I middle class then? Many children in post-war years were encouraged (and educated) to aspire. Those making judgements on writing, running literary journals, etc may have inheritance/are probably the next generation after the aspirers. Are my children middle class? Possibly. I always tell people of my background. I've worked in areas designed to open doors to others. Education, encouragement and confidence are key imo. These are political issues!
I write all the time about my life experience. I live by a code that supports the social contract that I benefitted from. Every year we lose elements of the contract means inequalities will become more stark.
Thanks for this Judy - I love the code that supports the social contract phrase!
Thanks. It's something close to my heart 😊
Excellent analysis, Kim. Thanks.
Thank you Catherine :)
This resonates with me so deeply . To this day l screen who l talk to about my love of Art and Poetry because it is met with derision and ‘ not real’ .
I am so fortunate to be going on course at a School of Art ( on a grant )… they are a non profit organisation and hold fundraising events for grants.
I have been so excited.its just wild
But there is also that feeling in the pit of my stomach….will l fit in with other students ..
because l am obviously working class background l have imposter syndrome .
It’s definitely not with the Tutors l have no worry of that after my zoom interview fantastic tutors .
Don’t get me wrong
l am owning this as my problem.
I hope l can find some one l can talk about Nature l will be fine 🤣
But like the previous commentator suggests maybe it is only the working class that worry about it ….
Because l have been judged so much by my peers who where in the same situation of having to stay in the box.
I am reading Cathy Burke’s book ‘
“A mind of my own “…..and again so much resonates … the lack of regular meals . Being a latch key kid …. It’s sad and happy all at the same time l find myself laughing out and then crying hot tears .
I understand how your parents talk of feeling uncomfortable that readings are not for them. Though they are so proud of you .
I go to events alone has when l ask who wants to come to a reading it’s all tumble weed .
I recently sharing a cafe table in Keighley purely by chance with a lady of similar age who was visiting the Lit festival alone for this reason. It was fabulous as we could just let rip to one another sharing our favourite writing.
Thanks for this post it’s wonderful.
It's so important to find your people in terms of writing - and they can become like another family :) I'm really glad to hear the tutors were fantastic.
This is great Kim, and agree about lack of nuance in most discussions of class
Thank you Clare!
Thanks for this, Kim. So many echoes of my upbringing; my dad was a plumber, my mum was a dinner lady in a borstal. The "no man's land" a university education puts you in!
Post Graduate Alienation
The family refer to her as the clever one,
say she's forgotten where she comes from;
she reads books, uses big words.
Like when she tries to tell them about
the carcinogenic risks of fast-food;
the carciwhat, why don't you just say
it can cause cancer.
At work she didn't go to private school,
her pronunciation isn't marbled enough
and she takes three sugars in her coffee.
Back home she talks to her pet snake,
goes shopping when most are in bed.
I started to write this a few times and just ended up saying what my parents' jobs were and feeling annoyed with myself - why do we always go backwards? I guess to be honest I don't feel working class enough to state it about myself, but I'm also 'not-middle-class' enough that I identify with feeling out of place in educational settings, financial precariousness (especially in the arts) etc. I too was told writing wasn't a job and here I am somehow. Nuance like this piece is what class discussions are currently missing.
Thanks Suzie - yes we need more nuance, less fetishization of class and less binaries about what it is or isn't perhaps...
Thanks for such a great article, Kim, and for the continued inspiration. My wife, N., has had similar experience as her mother's extended family are from New Parks in Leicester. N. was the first in her family to go to university and doesn't have a Leicester accent, for which her uncle has called her posh and her brother often said 'My taxes pay for your schooling.' She's been a second school teacher for twenty years and has really enjoyed the experience. When they were first married her parents were mocked for moving out of Leicester to a small village; my mother-in-law was amazing at saving money as my in-laws managed to scrimp & save to come visit us every year when we lived in the States. N. & I have often had discussions about class and have concluded there seems to be no discernible rules as to when you're working class or when you're no longer.
Ah New Parks! That is a blast from the past. My mum's family are from Braunstone and my dad's family are from Saffron Lane estate :)
This is soooo important! The effects of class on culture so easily goes unexamined, but it’s there all the time. It’s who we listen to, how we write, who gets to be admitted, how we read.
Thank you, thank you.
yes absolutely! Or I think sometimes it is examined, but it is so simplistic, and only the most extreme stories are told...
The subject of class feels like such a complicated one to me. When I first started sharing my writing I was called 'an authentic working class voice' and certainly I feel like I come from a working class background. But my dad was a baker and he owned his own shop, my mum was a secretary., although she also had other jobs before that , that might be seen as working class, like washing hair in a salon, although it was her sister's salon. So is my background working class? I didn't go to university until I was 40, I worked all those years before that behind bars, but never my own bar, always someone else's. I've never had a mortgage, and I never will. My mum and dad did, my ex husband's mum and dad did and now my ex has, too. But I will never.
Doing a PhD and mixing with people who come from different backgrounds to me, makes me think about class, but I don't feel excluded. I felt more 'different' when I started an MA at Manchester uni after my undergrad degree, I couldn't finish that MA because my 19 year old daughter was having a baby, my mum was looking after my 6 year old, and I couldn't afford the fees , so I dropped out and worked in home care.
Now I'm back at uni doing a PhD, I feel like the time is better and with funding, paying for it isn't an issue, I could never have afforded to pay for a PhD. I feel like I've worried about money all my life and my parents did too, like you, Kim, I often heard them discussing not being able to afford stuff. But we went on holiday every year.
. I'm not even the first person on my family to do a doctorate, my uncle is a Professor. My uncle who came from the same upbringing as my mum, and who, out of six children, was the only one to go to university. He was the only boy.
Hmm. Maybe I need to shut up and wrote my own Substack.
Ha - thanks for commenting Gill. Really interesting to hear about this and the grey areas...Your post r.e money made me remember the Catalogue - which was a massive catalogue that my mum 'ran' - neighbours and family would order clothes and then pay a couple of pounds a week - and then there were the people who didn't pay on time....knock on the door - oh it's such and such with her catalogue money...etc
Yep, my mum ran a 'club book' , Empire Stores and Gratton. Me and my brother loved the Autumn and Winter one with the Christmas toys in the back
If you had professional parents but have not worked for years yourself you can still be thought of as middle class by most people locally if you speak with the long 'a', especially in an area with selective education. I really feel for all the eleven year olds about now excluded because they were not selected for grammar. It starts with education and closing down windows of opportunity.
Thank you for sharing your experiences in this article. I can relate to so much of what you have written.
I am the first person in my family to go to university and at my graduation my peers were receiving gifts, like expensive jewellery and cars. My family didn’t even know graduation congratulations cards existed.
It can feel strange to have a foot in each camp. I’m so grateful to hear I’m not the only one.
Ah Joanne that made me smile in recognition as well. I didn't really understand what graduation was even when I was graduating the first time! I also didn't even understand what the degree classifications were - I was often oblivious!
Thanks for writing this. It resonated with me. It’s a complicated subject.
Thanks Rochelle!
I can relate to so much of this Kim, thank you for writing it x
Thank you Wendy x
Thanks for sharing, and for keeping this post in the free area of your substack mailing list.
The central section resonated.
Growing up in a single-parent working class poverty-stricken household in the 80s but being encouraged by my working class mum to aspire to more, to "make something of ourselves" gave me this constant unshakeable class tension. Honour and loyalty to family roots feel embedded in the "not leaving our working class-ness" behind, whilst a backlash against any identity that leaves my roots behind. None of my friends ever had to worry about class the way I did. And now my daughter is growing up with two working parents her experience is light years from mine...
I wonder if working / class is only a concern for the working classes?
Hi Katrina - all our written content from now on will be in the free area of Substack! We’ll just be holding online events for paid subscribers :) I’m glad this resonated - and I absolutely recognise that discomfort and tension. I feel very uncomfortable writing this - as if I am betraying someone or something by naming some of this stuff - as if I am leaving something vulnerable to exposure. Perhaps I will write about that next…I am wrestling with it all as I write!
I like the first sentence.
My sister in law stopped all contact once we bought a detached house. Despite the fact that our house in Berkshire is cheaper than theirs in London. I really miss seeing my brother.
Meanwhile my sons are inevitably lower middle class.
I've just spent a year at the UEA on the MA Non-Fiction Creative Writing Course, an experience I found deeply alienating. No one ever once mentioned social class. I had more in common with the cleaners & groundsmen than the academics who taught us. Where are the memoirs by kids who went to Secondary Modern schools?? 🤔
I'm sorry to hear that Nancy - I do think class is the elephant in the room, and I am interested (of course) in how it intersects with gender as well. Re memoirs of kids who went to Secondary Modern schools - I have written a kind of memoir called 'What the Trumpet Taught Me' :) but am sure there are lots more!
https://open.substack.com/pub/nancythompson731/p/the-c-word?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=44pn0q